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	<title>Blog de Xapiens &#187; chicha</title>
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		<title>world domination</title>
		<link>http://blogs.xendra.org/xapiens/2010/04/03/world-domination/</link>
		<comments>http://blogs.xendra.org/xapiens/2010/04/03/world-domination/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Apr 2010 02:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>xapiens</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[chicha]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.xendra.org/xapiens/?p=186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[En todo sitio encuentras gente ridicula que quiere hacerse pasar de &#8220;guru&#8221;, esta conversacion es en el canal de postgresql, un canal dedicado a base de datos, el protagonista es kW_ quien aparentemente tiene un proyecto ultra secreto. si eres una bestia con el ingles, usa google translate. &#60;kW_&#62; offtopic: does anybody know a channel [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>En todo sitio encuentras gente ridicula que quiere hacerse pasar de &#8220;guru&#8221;, esta conversacion es en el canal de postgresql, un canal dedicado a base de datos, el protagonista es kW_ quien aparentemente tiene un proyecto ultra secreto.</p>
<p>si eres una bestia con el ingles, usa google translate.</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-188" src="http://blogs.xendra.org/xapiens/files/chicharro.png" alt="chicharro" width="71" height="82" /></p>
<p><span style="color: #ff00ff">&lt;kW_&gt;  offtopic: does anybody know a channel where people hang around who work with microsoft compilers+linkers?</span><br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: I work with them<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  sternocera: well, <span style="color: #ff00ff">do you know how you can tell the microsoft compiler|linker in which order to layout static data in the .data section of a compiled file?</span><br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: No, and I don&#8217;t know why that matters<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  sternocera: well, it matters in a specific case here&#8230; apparently the ordering is not simply the ordering on how the variable definitions for that static data appear<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: Do you mean within individual object files?<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  sternocera: well, I mean in the resulting PE file (e.g. .DLL file, .EXE file &#8230;)<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: I can tell you that the initialisation order of global static data is undefined in C++, so why would the order be defined or predictable?<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  sternocera: well, it is effectively a requirement which popped up from real-live testing, and it is not fun to have it, but it looks like the requirement is not going to go away<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: <span style="color: #ff0000">Are you sure it isn&#8217;t an imaginary requirement? </span>It sounds like one.<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  sternocera: <span style="color: #ff00ff">no, unfortunately not, the consequences are real, I&#8217;ve measured them (unfortunately I am not allowed to be more specific)</span><br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: You&#8217;re funny.<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  sternocera: well, I wish this whole thing was not needed (because I know it is messy and compiler-specific at best), but oddly enough, it is<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  What are the nature of the consequences?<br />
&lt;RhodiumToad&gt;  if you&#8217;re trying to force the initialization order, then do it via appropriate methods rather than trying to hack on the physical order of data<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  <span style="color: #ff00ff">RhodiumToad: you mean the initialization order would possibly affect the physical order of data (it is the physical order which is needed to be influenced here, not the initialization order)</span><br />
&lt;RhodiumToad&gt;  then ignore me<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: Who knows? It probably isn&#8217;t documented anywhere, and likely varies between compiler versions. <span style="color: #ff0000">Have fun staring at a debugger looking at an ocean of hex.</span><br />
&lt;kW_&gt; <span style="color: #ff00ff"> sternocera: well, this is what I currently do <img src='http://blogs.xendra.org/xapiens/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </span> Well, I can at least define islands in this ocean and look where they are positioned<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  <span style="color: #ff0000">kW_: are you aware that you sound like a crazy person?</span><br />
&lt;kW_&gt; <span style="color: #ff00ff"> sternocera: well, to be honest, I do not really care about what I sound like. I&#8217;m sure however, once you would see the full picture (which I am not allowed to make public, unfortunately), you would understand the requirements.</span><br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: sorry, I don&#8217;t believe you<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  kW_: I think it&#8217;s more likely that you don&#8217;t see the full picture.<br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  <span style="color: #ff00ff">sternocera: no worries, I perfectly agree with you that it may sound odd (or &#8220;unbelievable&#8221; <img src='http://blogs.xendra.org/xapiens/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) given not knowing the reason why this is necessary.</span><br />
&lt;RhodiumToad&gt;  if you&#8217;re not able to share details of a problem, then it&#8217;s probably not a good idea to ask for help solving it<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt; <span style="color: #ff0000"> kW_: I actually have the answer to your question, but unfortunately it&#8217;s a secret.</span><br />
&lt;kW_&gt;  RhodiumToad: sure&#8230; well, I&#8217;m not able to share the details of the bigger problem, and I only ask for help for the smaller one&#8230;<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  The problem you have is that you&#8217;re asking how to do an incredibly ill-advised and stupid thing, and telling us that you actually have extremely valid but top secret reasons, and that we would totally agree that what you&#8217;ve proposed is the way forward if only we were privy to those secret reasons. Ockham&#8217;s razor tells me that the simplest explanation is that you&#8217;ve decided to do this dumb thing<br />
&lt;sternocera&gt;  and have become emotionally attached to the idea</p>
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